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Talk:Tassadar
Tribe It says he is Akilae precisely nowhere. His forces in Terran mission 9 are blue. His tribe is unknown, but the "Protoss Expeditionary Force" color was blue. PsiSeveredHead 22:05, 13 July 2007 (UTC) Still to do... He explained the Overmind's plans; this needs to be added to the article. PsiSeveredHead 12:57, 5 November 2007 (UTC) Tassadar's victory wasn't hollow He destroyed Overmind and broken the unity of the Swarm, as well as saved all creation from Zerg/Protoss Hybrid Overmind intended to create. XEL :Oh, in the short term Tassadar's feat was quite something and if StarCraft had ended right there and then, that would be that. But it didn't end right there. We got Brood War, and in Brood War the Zerg bounced right back, continuing on as the galactic wrecking crew we all know and love. I guess that's what happens when you get new management, especially one who is the Queen Bitch of the Universe. As for the whole hybrid thing, again Tassadar merely delayed the emergence of such things. The hybrids remain very much a Sword of Damocles hanging over the StarCraft universe. Meco 10:51, 23 March 2008 (UTC) But Tassadar prevented Overmind from creating Hybrid and saved Protoss races from being assimilated and all creation from being conquered by Hybrid. This is an important thing. XEL :As I said before: Tassadar merely delayed the Zerg a bit. Tassadar hardly irrevocably shut the door on the Zerg eating enough Protoss to undergo the "next big thing" and then continuing on their merry way throughout the cosmos. The Zerg are still poised to crash the Protoss party sometime in the future. And one suspects that something like that is afoot for StarCraft II, which is a mere five or so years after Brood War. Meco 21:55, 23 March 2008 (UTC) :XEL, you're making the a number of assumptions with your edit. The first relates to the nature of the Overmind. In the briefings the Overmind claims that all the Zerg are within it and carry out its will, and from here you perceive that the Overmind both directs and sets the goal of the Zerg. However, there is another interpretation, in which the Zerg are not a reflection of the Overmind but rather that the Overmind is a reflection of the Zerg. In this case, the will of the Zerg really comes from the Zerg as a whole, while the Overmind merely serves as a forum for decision making. The same might be applied to Cerebrates. That the Overmind seems to be an 'individual' and the originator of all things Zerg is suspect. We know that even Cerebrates seem like individuals with wills of their own but by the Overminds view they are not. As an extension it seems prudent to be suspicious whether the Overmind can even tell itself from the Zerg. Given how the Overmind was originally created, it's strongly possible that it can't. Bottom line: we have no idea which interpretation is closer to whatever happens to be the truth, and it's best not to favour either. Second: immediate assimilation of the Protoss. Whether the Overmind survived or not, it seems unlikely this was going to happen. If most of the devastation happened after the Zerg rampaged, then the Protoss would have had greater resources and the opportunity to use it once command of the war effort passed from the Conclave to more realistic heads. There is much leeway here for the Protoss to come out at least as well as in Brood War if not better. In this case, keeping the Overmind alive keeps the Zerg bent on controlled-destruction and gives the Protoss more time to do something constructive. This is not a formula for immediate assimilation. If most of the devastation was wrought before the rampage then we're stuck with the Brood War outcome, with the Protoss abandoning Aiur ASAP whether the Overmind goes or not. And obviously there was no immediate assimilation here either. Of course, that's a Terran interpretation of immediate. Depending on what sort of time scale the Zerg operate on, as far as they're concerned the Protoss may still be slated for "imminent" assimilation sometime next decade or something.Meco 19:40, 25 March 2008 (UTC) Tassadar did save the universe by destroying the Overmind. Just listen to this: "So you see my friends, we fight not only to save Aiur, but all creation! If we fall to the Zerg then the Overmind will run rampant throughout the stars, consuming all sentience-all life. It is up to us to put an end to this madness, once and for all." And the confirmation for Tassadar's words: "My children, the hour of our victory is at hand. For upon this world of Aiur shall we incorporate the strongest known species into our fold. Then shall we be the greatest of creation's children. We shall be... Perfect." So, Tassadar did save the universe by saving Protoss from being assimilated. And just as the article states, the survivors were now challenged to not squander this foothold into abyss by not letting the assimilation of Protoss to happen (for the Protoss) and stopping any future Hybrid threat (for all creation). XEL 19:46, 20 October 2008 (UTC) Do you understand the meaning of "hyperbole"? Of characters extrapolating with limited information? Consider: how can the Overmind know that even when it became perfect (by only its standards) that nobody else in the universe would be able to stop it? The universe, not just the little backwater of the Milky Way. And don't say it got it from the xel'naga, because we have very little knowledge on how much they knew either. Reaching for the extremes there would be equally hazardous. Meco 20:02, 20 October 2008 (UTC) Considering this is the main theme of SC Vanilla, I don't see any hyperbolic in this. The Overmind certainly could know, from the minds of Xel'Naga, since he get the information about the races from them. It is actually possible, since Zeratul said the Overmind came to finish their experiments. And the Hybrid, as we know from SC2 and Dark Origin are capable of unleahing the doom upon the universe. And again, the main theme and threat of SC Vanilla can't be just some exaggeration. It's like saying that the Burning Legion in WC3 and TBC was the threat only to Ashenvale and not to all Azeroth. XEL 07:09, 21 October 2008 (UTC) Besides: "Using protoss DNA, the Overmind would produce the perfect killing machines: a new strain of zerg that would conquer the rest of creation." (Story So Far) This wasn't said by any character. This implies that Blizzard agrees with the Overmind and Tassadar about the assimilation of the Protoss meaning the conquest of all creation by the Zerg. XEL 08:51, 21 October 2008 (UTC) Kinda intruding here, but for what it's worth, I think the nature of Tassadar's act lies somewhere in-between, as to what Tassadar really saved. Keeping in with both eloquence and objectivity, it would perhaps be accurate to say that Tassadar saved creation "from the Overmind," which is true. He took the thing out that intended to erradicate or assimilate all life. On the other hand, it would be incorrect to say that he saved creation "from the zerg"-Kerrigan intends on completing the mission the Overmind started and the protoss are still fighting for their lives. Tassadar won an important battle, but certainly didn't win the war.--Hawki 10:55, 21 October 2008 (UTC) Indeed. That is the meaning of the phrase "the survivors were now challenged not to squander this foothold into the abyss". XEL 15:07, 21 October 2008 (UTC) :Reviewing the "Story So Far" again, it seems Blizzard is content to adopt a narrow interpretation. Objection withdrawn. Meco 18:29, 21 October 2008 (UTC) It would make absolutely no sense for Blizzard to create the main threat of SC Vanilla, which is just "a narrow interpretation". Besides, we know very well that the Hybrid can unleash the doom upon the universe (if not, the main threat of SC2 is also "a narrow interpretation"). XEL 19:09, 21 October 2008 (UTC) :That's the narrow interpretation: that the hybrids are not only expected to be some all-powerful unstoppable force once unleashed, but that they will be as well. Not only is there very little logic behind it (granted this is a nitpick given the universe isn't meant to be anywhere near logical), but it shuts down a myriad of other possibilities by making the end a forgone conclusion, short of some deus ex machina occuring. This is not intellectually satisfying to me, but that's the way Blizzard is taking it. Meco 19:20, 21 October 2008 (UTC) I can't see any lack of logic in the Overmind conquering all creation if it assimilates the Protoss. It is the main theme of SC Vanilla. Tassadar did save all creation from the Overmind (and "the surviviors were now challenged not to squander this foothold into abyss"), it's unreasonable to object this. After all, that's (the Overmind consuming all creation if assimilates the Protoss) is the canonical information, given be the three canonical sources, two of which are fully reliable. XEL 19:33, 21 October 2008 (UTC) :-sigh- Right, let's do this by steps. What proof is there that everything in the universe, now and in the future, is functionally inferior to the hybrid and/or the "perfected" zerg as envisioned by the Overmind? Meco 20:22, 21 October 2008 (UTC) ::1. Purity of Form + Purity of Essence. It appears to be established that the Protoss puity of form and the Zerg purity of essence together can form a perfect being. Both Xel'Naga ("the Overmind had at last come to finish the experiments they began" and Duran) and the Overmind (the Overmind surely could know this, since he got the knowledge of the Protoss from the Xel'Naga) know (they know much enough about both Protoss and Zerg to be competent in this). ::2. The Story so Far statement. XEL 12:20, 22 October 2008 (UTC) : Let' s keep it from an in-universe perspective first. The contradiction comes later. :All you've done is reiterate the xel'naga's definition, and not answered my question. But running with your non-answer for a bit: If there is some absolute scale of perfection then there is still no way we can tell how close the xel'naga's vision of "perfection" is to the top of the scale. All we know is that a combination of the protoss and zerg will meet the xel'naga's goal, which they label as perfection. (See relativism.) :Saying that, back to the original question. What is required to know that nothing else in the universe can stop the hybrids? And what proof do we have that the xel'naga possess that knowledge? And if the xel'naga have that knowledge, what proof do we have that the Overmind inherited it in its entirety? Meco 18:18, 22 October 2008 (UTC) Xel'Naga had this knowledge: "the Overmind had at last come to finish the experiments they began so long ago" (and the Overmind said that the union of the Protoss Form and Zerg Essence will result in the perfect lifeform) Overmind surely inherited this knowledge, because what he got from the Xel'Naga was the knowledge about proto-genesis and the memory of races. This is more than enough for him to know about the Protoss Purity of Form all the Xel'Naga did. What is required to know that nothing else in the universe can stop the Hybrids? The union of the Protoss Form and Zerg Essence. For this the certain Purity of Form and Purity of Essence are required. And exactly what assets of the Purity of Form and the Purity of Essence form the perfect race when they come together isn't explained. And it isn't necessary, in fact. This is not the encyclopedia about the Protoss, Zerg and their Hybrid. XEL 18:38, 22 October 2008 (UTC) :"Xel'Naga had this knowledge:" Repeating that again and again without justification isn't enlightening. That the Overmind inherited some of the xel'naga's mindset does not establish the source or the scope of the knowledge that there vision of "perfection" is at the truly at the top the scale. You fail to address the relativist angle. :"The union of the Protoss Form and Zerg Essence. For this the certain Purity of Form and Purity of Essence are required." Doesn't answer my question. That's what they believed had to be done after they amassed the prerequisite knowledge. I want to know what sort of knowledge they needed to believe that was the right action, and whether that knowledge can be safely said to be sufficient to produce requirements for a truly perfect being on that hypothetical absolute scale. Meco 19:54, 22 October 2008 (UTC) Editor Unit Does it appears as a unit into the Galaxy Map Editor. If it does, in which category should we put him ? StarCraft II Protoss map editor units ? Andra2404 15:43, August 7, 2010 (UTC) He does appear in the editor under protoss -> campaign -> heroes. He is "standing" (not hovering) "5 meters" up in the air. He has the feedback and psionic storm abbilieties an 200/200/200 life/shield/energy and no special quotes. His model is similar to the presvers but not the same. Regarding your question: I have no idea^^ Elchwyn 16:18, August 7, 2010 (UTC) About the "Endgame" section edit Tassadar clearly says in Shadow Hunters "So you see my friends, we fight not only to save Aiur, but all creation! If we fall to the Zerg then the Overmind will run rampant throughout the stars, consuming all sentience-all life." And the Overmind's words further suggests this (everything he says about the Zerg becoming perfect). I can't see why would any of this be non-cannon. Furthermore, this is why Tassadar has been elevated to hero, he wouldn't have been if stopping Overmind didn't save the universe, because Aiur was lost. XEL 19:35, December 24, 2010 (UTC) Wiping out the Conclave Twilight p. 94-95: "What? He killed the Conclave? All of them?" "Yes. Members of the Judicator caste still survive, but there is no longer a Conclave. Tassadar did this with deep regret, but it was necessary." So in short don't ignore a book's material just because you don't like it. PSH aka Kimera 757 (talk) ) 18:34, December 31, 2010 (UTC) :In fact, I like Twilight's material :P I don't ignored it. Note that just before this statement Zamara says Tassadar and Conclave engaged in battle and the Conclave were slain (to which Jake reacts "he killed the Conclave?"). This doesn't necessarily mean the entire Conclave, only all of the members who engaded Tassadar in battle (i.e. the assault on the Heart of the Conclave in Homeland). And we know very well that at least some memebers of the Conclave survived as they admit having been mistaken about Tassadar in Eye of the Storm and are killed by the Zerg some time prior to the evacuation of Aiur. :In other words, granted that Zamara's statement isn't 100% implying that Tassadar has slain every las memeber of the Conclave and an obvious fact that the Conclave still remains after the civil war, we can conclude that Tassadar slew those members whom he fought in Homeland. :I suggest reverting the article to the version of my last edit. XEL 19:20, December 31, 2010 (UTC) ::So when Ramsey asks "He killed the Conclave? All of them?" and the response is "yes" it really means "not really"? I would think attacking the Conclave's HQ would be significant. If you look at the canon policy, you'll see that we do have room for retcons. PSH aka Kimera 757 (talk) ) 20:18, December 31, 2010 (UTC) If you wanted to challenge the material in the article, you should: *1) Collect the evidence (such as from the last mission you mentioned above). *2) Put it in the talk page first. (The first 2008 and second impressions you give me are that you're ignoring sources in favor of speculation, or expanding one source at the expense of another, hence fast reverts.) *3) When you use something (like Twilight) as a reference, what you say has to be from the reference. Twilight says they were wiped out, and doesn't specify which Conclave members were wiped out, or in which battle, or that only a few were wiped out, etc. If you're going to say "wiped out the ones in that particular battle" you need to use a reference that says that. PSH aka Kimera 757 (talk) ) 20:37, December 31, 2010 (UTC) That Zamara's statement is most clearly NOT a retcon: Twilight Archon (which came out two weeks after Twilight) also involves Conclave being present shortly before the evacuation. Plus, Zamara mentions "members of the Judicator caste survive, but there's no Conclave". Add one to one and you get the situation where many conclave members were killed (weakening its rule) in the attack on the Heart, just like the article about Protoss Civil War says. XEL 22:19, December 31, 2010 (UTC) :Besides, I'm sure you'll agree with me when I say that the Conclave admitting they were mistaken in Eye of the Storm and sending reinforcements to Artanis' and Tassadar's forces is a very important point of the story to be retconned (especially considering the fact that later (than Twilight) sources do mention the surviving Conclave) that way. Also, you can try common sense: if Tassadar killed all of the Conclave memebers, then who the hell imprisoned and trial'd him in The Trial of Tassadar =) XEL 22:27, December 31, 2010 (UTC) So no mention of following instructions. The evacuation of Aiur took place very quickly after the death of the Overmind, which in turn took place very shortly after Tassadar's battles with the Conclave. Not all Judicators are members of the Conclave. The Conclave is an exclusive club. That's like saying all priests in Iran run that country; most do not. Also, Tassadar's allies took the fight to the Conclave again in order to free him (plus they had to survive Aldaris' ambush). So in short, explain yourself on the talk page first. Explaining what happened in Twilight Archon first (and you gave very few details there, by the way, so now I have to go through that) could have prevented a reversion. And especially after the Fall of Tarsonis edits you made earlier today, I'm getting very tired of arguing and reverting edits. PSH aka Kimera 757 (talk) ) 00:36, January 1, 2011 (UTC) :And I just checked Twilight Archon. No references to the Conclave. PSH aka Kimera 757 (talk) ) 00:46, January 1, 2011 (UTC) ::You must have missed something. Rihod clearly tells Lekila that the Conclave tasked them with recovering of the Kassia crystal. Or does he say "the Council" or something like that (which would mean the de facto leaders of the Protoss by the time of the evacuation: Aldaris, Zeratul, Fenix and Artanis)? I'm sorry for not being entirely knowledgable about this subject, I only have the Russian version of the Twilight Archon at the time :( ::Anyway, even putting Twilight Archon aside, at least some surviving members of the Conclave are clearly present in The Trial of Tassadar (trialling a suspend-animated Tass) and in Eye of the Storm (admitting they were wrong and sending backup), so there must've been at least some survivivors among the Conclave left after Tass whooped them (and Zamara may not be all that tipped off about the final events of the Great War, since IIRC she wasn't on Aiur at the time). ::As for the Judicators mention you seem to have misunderstood me: I was implying that Zamara's mention of the Judicator's caste members could have meant her elaborating on the statement that the Conclave was killed: "the memebers of the Judicator caste still survive Conclave as the actual Protoss, but there is no Conclave an organization", but I'm unsure here and may very well be wrong, since although my knowledge of English is good, it's not perfect enough to understand all possible semantics. XEL 02:41, January 1, 2011 (UTC) SC1 Voice To defend my edit to the voices. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0217061/ --Wierdperson31 03:20, August 6, 2011 (UTC) That's a problem for two reasons. First, you didn't source the edit, and second, IMDB isn't a good source. It's often been wrong about StarCraft I voice actors. PSH aka Kimera 757 (talk) ) 04:14, August 6, 2011 (UTC) :According to the StarCraft manual, Michael Gough was a voice actor for StarCraft, so I am fairly confident that IMDB is correct. Zeta1127 of the 89th Legion (talk) 05:08, August 6, 2011 (UTC) ::IMDB does have a list of voice actors for SC1, but they often assigned them wrong. For instance, they got Zeratul and Duke wrong - the right names weren't revealed until the BlizzCon 2007 lore panel. Every few months I have to revert changes to the IMDB voice actors for those pages, as few people want to watch a 1 hour long panel. PSH aka Kimera 757 (talk) ) 12:41, August 6, 2011 (UTC) Tassadar's Clan theorey Tassadar's official tribe hasnt been revealed, but I think that he is a member of the Shelak tribe for the following reasons: His sprite in some of his games is pale white Certain individuals have a purple tint in their pale skin. Tassandar has that skin quality :We don't know his tribe for sure, but he was certainly a member of the Templar Caste. PSH aka Kimera 757 (talk) ) 15:04, February 22, 2015 (UTC) Portrait (LotV SPOILER) At the end of Legacy of the Void it is revealed that the entity Zeratul believes to be Tassadar's spirit is in fact someone else entirely. Thus, should we reconsider using the 'spirit' portrait as the main portrait for the article? -- SaganamiFan (talk) 22:08, November 16, 2015 (UTC) :As the template states, the entire article needs rewriting.--Hawki (talk) 22:18, November 16, 2015 (UTC)